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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 106 for the 29th of our

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of October 2010 Richard Saunders here

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with you once again in sydney australia

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on this week's show we have a report

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from the shonky awards by the consumer

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affairs magazine choice they give out

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these awards every year it's sort of

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like the Pegasus award from the j ref

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for the bent spoon from the australian

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skeptics shonky meaning juvia sore

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underhanded is award given out every

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year to a range of products that in the

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view of choice magazine are frankly

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shonky don't live up to claims may be a

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ripoff maybe an outright con and our

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interest this year in the shonky Awards

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was the awarding of one of those awards

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to the power balance bracelet so in the

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view of choice magazine the power

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balance bracelet with its magic hologram

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in their words is a con we'll find out

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more soon following that there's a

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report that i did downtown here in

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Sydney a few days ago with the zombie

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March not much to do with skepticism

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here okay but it was a lot of fun anyway

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and after that the think tank with the

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welcome return of dr. Richie Joe Benna

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mu a run so give and may not all right

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thank you to those people sending in

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drink ideas are we mentioned some of

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those coming up in the think tank but

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for now sit back I have that nice glass

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of cold soda water and enjoy the

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for 50 years choice magazine has been

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keeping an eye out for Australian

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consumers testing and rating products

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this year was the fifth anniversary of

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the shonky Awards the prize no company

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wants to win at a press conference in

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Sydney Christopher Xin from choice

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magazine announced that the power band

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bracelet was the winner of one of the

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shonky Awards so ladies and gentlemen

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the shonky or the strongest pen dias

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dumbest and pseudoscience contribution

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particular marketing campaign we would

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say that may be so but we think it's

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shocking the power balance bands as well

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I understand that choice did its own

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independent testing on that yeah what'd

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you find yeah look we did you know I

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think we'd have looked at the power

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balance without testing it and say look

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there's something a bit shonky here but

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we put it through a test of 20

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able-bodied adults doing various power

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and flexibility test sometimes they had

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the power band sometimes they had

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nothing sometimes they thought they had

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the power band we'd actually removed the

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magic hologram which resonates 7.83

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kilohertz and you know what it did make

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a skerrick of difference one way or the

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other now the power band has some

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placebo effect it can make people feel

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something that's great but do you really

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have to pay sixty dollars for such a

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thing you know say one I'm wearing now

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is a is a ripoff version that costs two

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dollars and it seems to do five and now

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I'm talking with Chris Barnes from

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choice magazine Chris you did a great

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little demonstration there with help of

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some other people about via the effects

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or shall I say the zero effects to the

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power power balance bracelet yes that's

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right Richard zero effect is what we

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found we did a trial of about 20 people

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in the

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and it consisted of testing balance and

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flexibility since those are two of the

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things that the Power Balance claims to

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help you with it also claims help with

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strength but we thought there might be

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some ohs issues in testing strengthener

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in the lab so we left that one out so we

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the test basically consisted of people

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walking on a balance beam and doing a

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rotational stretch around which is

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similar to some of the demonstrations of

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power balance themselves use but we did

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a little more scientifically than they

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did we had a fro everyone went through

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three runs one without wearing any

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product one wearing a products which was

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intact so still have its magic hologram

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consarn attached and one which was able

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to see though it looked exactly the same

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but it had its Holograms removed and

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both sets of products are disguised with

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tape so that no one doing the truong nhu

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which one with which and i was actually

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running the trial didn't know either so

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it was a double-blind trial we had that

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one of our lab tested separately you

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know to myself dr. one of the sets of

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power balance so that meant that if

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there was any effect at all we really

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should have seen something show up in

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the balance and flexibility test and the

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end result was that there was no

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significant difference between any of

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the runs at all clearly the product is

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purely placebo absolutely and that's the

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conclusion of a showing skeptics of

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course have you had feedback or

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communication of the Power Balance

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people yes so as we do with all our

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product tests we sent them the results

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before we published so they could

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comment and give them a right of fair

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reply before we publish anything so we

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do that with all our product tests

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probably to check facts but also to give

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the right of reply their reply was that

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they believes in the product and that is

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it didn't work then millions of people

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would be demanding their money back and

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well clearly people don't generally

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demand their money back even when they

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think that something doesn't work they

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tend to just give up on it and move on

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with regards to the money back guarantee

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we did actually test that we took a

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product back to the store where we

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bought and said look we wanted we wanted

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our money back we're not happy with this

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and believe it or not the product the

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store they actually tested the product

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using power balances own tests

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demonstration balance and the

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flexibility and all that too absolutely

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because I wanted to make sure it was a

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genuine thing that we weren't you know

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that we weren't returning some sort of

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counterfeit and they've satisfied

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themselves it was the real thing so they

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gave the money back so the money back

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guarantee at least is a real thing well

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if there's one thing one thing that we

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said that's real about the whole power

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balance and holographic band claim is

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some companies will give you give you

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your money back that's correct yep and

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look you know if you get some placebo

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effect out of it that's terrific but

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frankly you can get the same effect by

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wearing your lucky Underpants or a

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four-leaf clover or whatever if there's

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some talisman that you believe brings

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you a bit of luck and helps your

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performance on the sports field you know

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why not wear it look at why pay sixty

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dollars or 90 that's the point they're

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not selling it as a feel-good thing

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they're selling it with the specific

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claims that it will increase your

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balance strength and flexibility using

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the science they've probably cooked up

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out of that yeah exactly they use some

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fairy pseudo scientific terms which

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which are quite convincing if you don't

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really know much about science or about

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you know biology they talk about energy

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fields and frequencies and all this sort

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of stuff which are all real things in

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their own right but you know have

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absolutely no bearing on the product

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it's a classic example of people cooking

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up a great scheme and being very

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successful at good week in the public I

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think remarkably successful from

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everything that I've read yes yes well

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thank you Chris and well I hope that we

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have some happy and use next year on

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now thanks to choice magazine or putting

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on such a great press conference for the

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shonky awards and I can recommend choice

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magazine to you you can subscribe at ww

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choice com au hey boo oh hey bro what on

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your wrist is that a balance cabin what

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the no no this is a placebo man or what

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that's right new from skeptic browse

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calm let's sip abandoned no more popping

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pills painful needles or smelly

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ointments huh the suburban uses too

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powerful scientifically proven affects

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the placebo effect and confirmation bias

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seriously there's no one else here who

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are you yelling at the super bands in

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five fashionable colors are available

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for only two dollars each plus postage

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and handling from skeptic bros calm get

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yours today why do I even talk to you

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I'm your brother and mum says you have

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i'm here at the hyde park in sydney it's

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zombie day or walk like a zombie hello

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what's your name hi I'm Jesse hi Jesse

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what is what's going on here with all

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these zombies it's the annual zombie

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walk it happens all over the world there

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was one in please spend today as well

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I'll go and everybody just meets at my

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pad fat and walks through this video

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like a zombie may I wonder why or just

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for fun just for fun if they're part of

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and the Sydney flash mob is oh yeah yeah

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so it's just one of those weird things

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they do for fun and it's somebody's ami

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just fell over and all the other zombies

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are jumping on top of them to feed off

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his brains like this and that's why

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you're here just for fun isn't it yeah

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and you I'm just here for fun as well

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i'm also a marshal um have no idea

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what's going on but um what I've heard

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is it's for charity I'm not sure what

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charity but um there they will be taking

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donations that now folks all the zombies

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is just ran off in a mad run around the

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fountain after brains there have to hope

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wonderfully tasty well this is very good

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i'm pleased to see so many zombies oh

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they're coming back okay a lot more if

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you hang around too bad friend i think

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i'll do that because this is too

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interesting to miss out although the

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cool one is joining this is quite a

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sight well thanks for having a chat

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thank you that's not every day you come

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across Death himself here in Sydney

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death there are so many zombies around

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here you responsible for this it's sort

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of on full sleep at my job and I sort of

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got fired and I can't even get federal

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eat even recognize me anymore now that

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down there and they said what are you

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doing with the board dude killing her on

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like do killing for a living and they

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for the Fed bill will get back to you or

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not now you might wonder why def sounds

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so strange well death is actually

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wearing a death mask your fraud well I

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think there's lots of piggies around

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here today def so I hope you have a good

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March horrible normally they should stay

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dead when they call them but the ports

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of these guys just keep getting back up

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and moving

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udah rid of War II wash thank you now if

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zombies could said to have an organized

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and I think I found the organizer here

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he's faces exploding and all sorts of

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things happening your name is Michael

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vermin Michael what's this all about

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basically the undead need to rise

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occasionally and what better way to do

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it then get them all together in the

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00:11:30,540 --> 00:11:28,029
city and go for a nice walk a nice walk

273
00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:30,550
on a gray grizzly sore today oh well

274
00:11:34,019 --> 00:11:32,050
great grizzly so today's best day for

275
00:11:35,699 --> 00:11:34,029
zombies I think it is too how many years

276
00:11:37,499 --> 00:11:35,709
is this sort of a thing been going on

277
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:37,509
you know it's been going on in Sydney

278
00:11:41,999 --> 00:11:39,370
for a couple of years although it's been

279
00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:42,009
his first post on in san fran no not san

280
00:11:47,369 --> 00:11:44,850
francisco summer in california yeah in

281
00:11:48,869 --> 00:11:47,379
2006 and then it sort of spread on the

282
00:11:50,699 --> 00:11:48,879
internet and now everyone's going on

283
00:11:52,259 --> 00:11:50,709
it's not a bad turnout I mean the

284
00:11:53,610 --> 00:11:52,269
marchesan on for a little while yet but

285
00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:53,620
still the parks filling up with all

286
00:11:57,780 --> 00:11:56,050
sorts of undead creatures yeah um be

287
00:11:59,939 --> 00:11:57,790
Jesus I love seeing a good zombie jesus

288
00:12:01,710 --> 00:11:59,949
everywhere yes got a lot of heavy bear

289
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:01,720
and all sorts of things yeah a few

290
00:12:05,819 --> 00:12:03,490
people from Resident Evil going as

291
00:12:07,889 --> 00:12:05,829
Umbrella Corporation employees I throw

292
00:12:09,420 --> 00:12:07,899
them awesome so this is fantastic I

293
00:12:11,939 --> 00:12:09,430
imagine it's only going to get bigger

294
00:12:13,470 --> 00:12:11,949
and bigger and they used to come oh yeah

295
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:13,480
I'm this is the first one I've ever

296
00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:15,370
organized so I'm really excited about

297
00:12:18,929 --> 00:12:16,959
seeing it expand over the next few years

298
00:12:21,389 --> 00:12:18,939
all the best will be much thank you very

299
00:12:23,100 --> 00:12:21,399
much now not all zombies are horrible

300
00:12:25,530 --> 00:12:23,110
wretches from the graves and I found

301
00:12:27,929 --> 00:12:25,540
some lovely zombies in fact coming along

302
00:12:29,939 --> 00:12:27,939
here today ladies why you've got blood

303
00:12:31,230 --> 00:12:29,949
and muck and everything on your face why

304
00:12:35,579 --> 00:12:31,240
are you here today we've just eaten

305
00:12:37,530 --> 00:12:35,589
what's her I see messy eaters I know it

306
00:12:40,829 --> 00:12:37,540
was it's great we went to the Michael

307
00:12:42,119 --> 00:12:40,839
Jackson Thriller or a dance this morning

308
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:42,129
and then we thought we did the zombie

309
00:12:48,119 --> 00:12:43,930
walk this afternoon how did you find out

310
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:48,129
about it um this might work yeah um well

311
00:12:52,940 --> 00:12:50,610
you found a better on facebook facebook

312
00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:52,950
good old facebook and bringing the world

313
00:12:57,530 --> 00:12:55,110
together in a strange subway together

314
00:12:58,819 --> 00:12:57,540
bring it bringing zombies together all

315
00:13:00,590 --> 00:12:58,829
over the world and this is the first

316
00:13:02,690 --> 00:13:00,600
time you have taken part in a much yeah

317
00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:02,700
yeah it is yes well it's the first time

318
00:13:05,780 --> 00:13:04,260
I've seen it too and it's quite

319
00:13:08,030 --> 00:13:05,790
remarkable to be surrounded by all these

320
00:13:12,110 --> 00:13:08,040
girls and I wasn't expecting to see

321
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:12,120
Jesus here well there you go Oh nobody

322
00:13:17,329 --> 00:13:15,839
expects the Spanish English it's taking

323
00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:17,339
a lot of people by surprise I think

324
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:20,760
today cuz he normally does well look

325
00:13:24,139 --> 00:13:22,410
thank you very much having a chat with

326
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:24,149
me enjoy your your March you all look

327
00:13:35,930 --> 00:13:34,290
fantastic thank you want your brain well

328
00:13:38,810 --> 00:13:35,940
the crowd is certainly growing here and

329
00:13:41,210 --> 00:13:38,820
there are a lot of people just wandering

330
00:13:42,769 --> 00:13:41,220
mind the parks stopping to have a look

331
00:13:46,340 --> 00:13:42,779
can't believe what they see there's

332
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:46,350
about 200 may be zombies gathered here

333
00:13:51,889 --> 00:13:49,170
now mostly drenched in blood dancing

334
00:13:55,310 --> 00:13:51,899
around all over the place people running

335
00:13:58,490 --> 00:13:55,320
about lots of photographers have turned

336
00:14:00,829 --> 00:13:58,500
up from everywhere sort of I'm just

337
00:14:04,639 --> 00:14:00,839
waiting for the first TV film crew to

338
00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:04,649
arrive it's getting quite crowded he was

339
00:14:08,750 --> 00:14:07,110
Ombey so this is even before the match

340
00:14:09,740 --> 00:14:08,760
starts so it'll be interesting to see

341
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:09,750
what will happen although there's

342
00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:11,010
somebody with a knife in their head just

343
00:14:16,460 --> 00:14:14,310
walking past me and as a by-product of

344
00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:16,470
all of this looking on the ground around

345
00:14:20,130 --> 00:14:18,510
the fountain here and it's sort of

346
00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:20,140
splattered with that

347
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:22,800
blood every now and then and black ooze

348
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:26,530
it's gushing from various valves people

349
00:14:38,190 --> 00:14:31,360
are eating this probably chocolate syrup

350
00:14:39,690 --> 00:14:38,200
and just spinning it out there's someone

351
00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:39,700
who just this is the last episode on a

352
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:43,120
podcast I can see in the corner there

353
00:14:48,270 --> 00:14:44,530
would appears to be a group of Japanese

354
00:14:51,330 --> 00:14:48,280
tourists very confused so what's going

355
00:14:53,340 --> 00:14:51,340
on here well zombies come in all shapes

356
00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:53,350
and sizes I'm talking to a delightful a

357
00:14:57,180 --> 00:14:54,910
couple of young zombies here today what

358
00:15:00,000 --> 00:14:57,190
brings you to this ridiculously

359
00:15:02,430 --> 00:15:00,010
interesting place well my flatmate he is

360
00:15:04,410 --> 00:15:02,440
from Canada and she's been involved in a

361
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:04,420
zombie walks before and she's introduced

362
00:15:10,130 --> 00:15:07,450
me to this Madigan's I am a zombie

363
00:15:13,050 --> 00:15:10,140
enthusiast this is my third zombie walk

364
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:13,060
you zombie walk in Canada yes we zombie

365
00:15:15,870 --> 00:15:14,530
walk in Canada we zombie walk all over

366
00:15:18,300 --> 00:15:15,880
the world you know anywhere were those

367
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:18,310
people there's the undead so you know it

368
00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:20,320
can be expected what's the attraction

369
00:15:24,990 --> 00:15:23,440
especially for you know it's just want

370
00:15:27,540 --> 00:15:25,000
to do for laughs I just I just enjoy

371
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:27,550
dressing up Halloween only comes once a

372
00:15:31,620 --> 00:15:29,890
year so you know any other chances that

373
00:15:34,410 --> 00:15:31,630
you get to look I'll gory so is this

374
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:34,420
loosely tied in with Halloween I'm not

375
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:36,850
sure not really I think it's more like

376
00:15:43,860 --> 00:15:39,610
um it's would be considered a flash mob

377
00:15:45,650 --> 00:15:43,870
it up more yeah like a cult flash mob in

378
00:15:47,580 --> 00:15:45,660
his own way the same way like people

379
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:47,590
like the people who come to these are

380
00:15:50,610 --> 00:15:48,730
things at the same ones who like The

381
00:15:53,010 --> 00:15:50,620
Rocky Horror Picture Show like horror

382
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:53,020
movies and so it's just yeah those

383
00:15:57,630 --> 00:15:54,850
people getting up and going and doing

384
00:15:59,640 --> 00:15:57,640
things the community have you ever been

385
00:16:01,230 --> 00:15:59,650
to their big conventions like Dragon Con

386
00:16:04,410 --> 00:16:01,240
in the United States the big science

387
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:04,420
fiction are this reminds me of that you

388
00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:05,920
see a lot of people dressed up as

389
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:08,110
zombies and also suppose you things of

390
00:16:13,570 --> 00:16:08,570
those things

391
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:13,580
I'm a zombie virgin brain eating a lot

392
00:16:17,380 --> 00:16:15,650
for your first time yeah exactly but I

393
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:17,390
don't think you're a good coming no I

394
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:19,040
know a lot of fun and it's good to see

395
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:20,930
lots of people in getting involved and

396
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:22,610
like all of their costumes and stuff and

397
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:23,930
just made me want to go bigger and

398
00:16:29,740 --> 00:16:27,530
better next year converted another yeah

399
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:29,750
you've created another undead yes

400
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:34,010
exactly infected her heaven well thank

401
00:16:55,620 --> 00:16:53,460
so the zombie March is making its way

402
00:17:00,270 --> 00:16:55,630
through the streets of the city hello

403
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:00,280
again fancy meeting you here the heck

404
00:17:05,010 --> 00:17:02,770
are you enjoying it I'm having a great

405
00:17:07,140 --> 00:17:05,020
time now with much you're all marching

406
00:17:08,579 --> 00:17:07,150
along you've gotten the character more

407
00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:08,589
than I have obviously they are you

408
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:10,569
enjoying the March it's awesome it's

409
00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:12,730
fabulous it's amazing to have this huge

410
00:17:16,980 --> 00:17:15,370
horde of zombies I noticed some people

411
00:17:19,740 --> 00:17:16,990
in buses giving you some funny looks too

412
00:17:22,020 --> 00:17:19,750
they're cheering us on Davis always they

413
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:22,030
should be scared but they're not and

414
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:26,290
we're off again just crossing down now

415
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:27,730
in Martin place one of the big

416
00:17:31,050 --> 00:17:29,170
pedestrian malls in here and city

417
00:17:33,690 --> 00:17:31,060
hundreds of photographers has shown up

418
00:17:35,370 --> 00:17:33,700
and strangely enough we seem to be

419
00:17:36,890 --> 00:17:35,380
gathering more zombies as we walk along

420
00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:36,900
I don't know where they're coming from

421
00:17:42,690 --> 00:17:39,760
they must be popping out of the graves I

422
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:47,640
hold zombies young so much pain I mean

423
00:17:55,650 --> 00:17:53,650
is it where's wally zombie i think

424
00:17:59,790 --> 00:17:55,660
they've cornered some poor woman down

425
00:18:07,460 --> 00:17:59,800
here surrounding her after her brains or

426
00:18:10,290 --> 00:18:07,470
something it's a bit later on now

427
00:18:12,750 --> 00:18:10,300
zombies are still marching TV film crews

428
00:18:14,670 --> 00:18:12,760
to come out of some police over there

429
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:14,680
people are being marshaled in various

430
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:18,090
directions but

431
00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:21,330
I for one think this is a fantastic

432
00:18:26,690 --> 00:18:25,110
event oh it's a bridal party up ahead

433
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:26,700
there looking a little bit worried

434
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:28,770
there's a hundred zombies coming their

435
00:18:34,430 --> 00:18:29,730
way but I think this is a wonderful

436
00:18:36,350 --> 00:18:34,440
event it's all in good fun there there's

437
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:36,360
another bride and groom right beside me

438
00:18:41,269 --> 00:18:38,400
is this your is this your wedding day is

439
00:18:45,049 --> 00:18:41,279
how it is and I you forgot to brush your

440
00:18:46,610 --> 00:18:45,059
teeth but don't worry why did you if you

441
00:18:48,740 --> 00:18:46,620
can speak how did you why did you come

442
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:48,750
to the zombie much today it's a bit of

443
00:18:52,159 --> 00:18:50,970
fun that's what I think exactly it's

444
00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:52,169
just a bit of good fun and little

445
00:18:56,659 --> 00:18:54,960
fabulous thank you very much for that so

446
00:18:59,659 --> 00:18:56,669
as the zombies March off into the

447
00:19:03,279 --> 00:18:59,669
distance hello there's a south african

448
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:03,289
zombie i think i'll leave them to a

449
00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:05,520
finish up and crawl back into their

450
00:19:10,010 --> 00:19:07,230
graves and yes what a lot of fun it is

451
00:19:13,340 --> 00:19:10,020
the zombie much check it out on facebook

452
00:19:16,399 --> 00:19:13,350
check it out on facebook and if there's

453
00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:16,409
a zombie much coming to your city by all

454
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:19,049
means go along dress up and have a lot

455
00:19:37,860 --> 00:19:33,930
rational capital the podcast for science

456
00:19:39,390 --> 00:19:37,870
and skepticism in and about Canberra say

457
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:39,400
it like you mean it there's nothing

458
00:19:52,940 --> 00:19:46,450
magical miraculous about that find out

459
00:20:06,240 --> 00:19:56,340
join us now for drinking skeptically in

460
00:20:08,370 --> 00:20:06,250
the think tank you won't talk about it

461
00:20:10,470 --> 00:20:08,380
man I want you to talk about that but we

462
00:20:12,990 --> 00:20:10,480
are glad we have thrilled and we are

463
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:13,000
pleased and delighted and overjoyed and

464
00:20:16,890 --> 00:20:14,770
happy and delighted I said that already

465
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:16,900
that you're joining us for do you think

466
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:18,640
tank hello may not hello it's great to

467
00:20:21,660 --> 00:20:19,810
be here we were just talking about a

468
00:20:23,340 --> 00:20:21,670
discussion I had with a salesperson max

469
00:20:24,990 --> 00:20:23,350
black in King Street blaster said

470
00:20:26,670 --> 00:20:25,000
they're not but that's not for

471
00:20:28,980 --> 00:20:26,680
publication see dr. hu knows what that

472
00:20:31,470 --> 00:20:28,990
is and people in the know know out there

473
00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:31,480
and a in the morning to a lot of people

474
00:20:34,860 --> 00:20:33,310
that have been sending the emails about

475
00:20:37,170 --> 00:20:34,870
stuff too because you're picking up a

476
00:20:39,660 --> 00:20:37,180
lot of interest from fringe people about

477
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:39,670
this podcast mi it's good to know but

478
00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:42,010
please I it's your show but but ladies

479
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:43,600
gentlemen that delightful laughter

480
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:46,090
laughter you missed last week because

481
00:20:51,420 --> 00:20:48,910
she was in Wyoming chasing moose it's

482
00:20:53,910 --> 00:20:51,430
dr. HC back with us again hideout dream

483
00:20:57,220 --> 00:20:53,920
hi Richard yay

484
00:20:58,540 --> 00:20:57,230
your fans are missed you I have actually

485
00:21:00,280 --> 00:20:58,550
that somebody wrote on the blog that

486
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:00,290
they missed you the same thing oh that's

487
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:02,930
very sweet well yeah I was chasing me

488
00:21:05,860 --> 00:21:04,370
but we can talk about that a bit later

489
00:21:08,260 --> 00:21:05,870
already that's what the kids are calling

490
00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:08,270
in that's all the kids for now and it's

491
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:10,880
great to see back again nurse jojoba no

492
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:13,370
moon hi Richard it's been ages yeah you

493
00:21:17,350 --> 00:21:14,690
haven't been long for a while but I know

494
00:21:19,060 --> 00:21:17,360
you that you've had have had some

495
00:21:20,980 --> 00:21:19,070
interesting things to look at I have

496
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:20,990
which we'll get to in am absolutely and

497
00:21:27,460 --> 00:21:24,710
of course I rounding up the five of us

498
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:27,470
tonight it's Iran's again hi Richard

499
00:21:33,910 --> 00:21:29,840
it's good to be back you try I heard

500
00:21:38,230 --> 00:21:33,920
yeah I heard my fan missed me are your

501
00:21:39,550 --> 00:21:38,240
mom listens to the show no he listens to

502
00:21:42,580 --> 00:21:39,560
the show when he comes home again you

503
00:21:44,890 --> 00:21:42,590
see last week I mentioned on the show

504
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:44,900
that I invited listeners to riding with

505
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:46,490
their favorite drink the drink of choice

506
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:49,090
that maybe we could have as the official

507
00:21:53,620 --> 00:21:51,530
skeptic zone drink and I've had some

508
00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:53,630
people riding in with their ranch drink

509
00:22:00,580 --> 00:21:56,720
of choice let me turn to one now we've

510
00:22:03,310 --> 00:22:00,590
had a absently ah now this is actually

511
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:03,320
like apps yet look I'm not since they

512
00:22:07,390 --> 00:22:05,810
took the LSD type quality out of it with

513
00:22:08,980 --> 00:22:07,400
the wormwood have not been so big on it

514
00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:08,990
but you know I give it a go and you just

515
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:14,720
throw in your own acid so thank you

516
00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:18,290
howard love it who is written to us in

517
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:20,000
fact he's invited us all to have a glass

518
00:22:25,410 --> 00:22:22,850
with him and this is something we may

519
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:25,420
take up before long and we have another

520
00:22:30,850 --> 00:22:28,250
suggestion from Matthew McCarthy he

521
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:30,860
reckons that we should have rum and

522
00:22:37,180 --> 00:22:34,720
honey Oh doesn't that sound nice winter

523
00:22:38,580 --> 00:22:37,190
Armenia I'm going to be cold at the

524
00:22:42,190 --> 00:22:38,590
moment that sounds like a good thing to

525
00:22:45,779 --> 00:22:42,200
have the cold so folks keep those drinks

526
00:22:47,340 --> 00:22:45,789
coming in cocktails or interesting

527
00:22:53,729 --> 00:22:47,350
Thanks that they've been sending them is

528
00:22:59,099 --> 00:22:53,739
sending emails and the yeah and the

529
00:23:01,710 --> 00:22:59,109
hallucis another week is wormwood let's

530
00:23:03,450 --> 00:23:01,720
start off the think tank tonight with an

531
00:23:04,830 --> 00:23:03,460
interesting subject that's been popping

532
00:23:06,749 --> 00:23:04,840
up on the internet lately and I know

533
00:23:10,830 --> 00:23:06,759
we've got a lot to get through tonight

534
00:23:12,419 --> 00:23:10,840
on the show the old saying preaching to

535
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:12,429
the converted now there are a lot of

536
00:23:18,210 --> 00:23:16,450
people out there who criticize skeptics

537
00:23:20,369 --> 00:23:18,220
and conventions and of course convention

538
00:23:23,070 --> 00:23:20,379
is on our mind at the moment with Tam

539
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:23,080
Australia coming up people whinging

540
00:23:27,930 --> 00:23:25,840
saying or whining why do we waste our

541
00:23:30,719 --> 00:23:27,940
time simply preaching to convert what

542
00:23:34,139 --> 00:23:30,729
uses up now I take offense to that

543
00:23:36,529 --> 00:23:34,149
personally because heaven heavens who's

544
00:23:39,629 --> 00:23:36,539
more converted with me personally yet I

545
00:23:42,899 --> 00:23:39,639
love going to conventions the amazing

546
00:23:45,029 --> 00:23:42,909
meeting dragoncon all of this because I

547
00:23:47,099 --> 00:23:45,039
don't think for one moment that I know

548
00:23:49,759 --> 00:23:47,109
their everything there is to know about

549
00:23:52,619 --> 00:23:49,769
what we do in skepticism and the new

550
00:23:54,450 --> 00:23:52,629
critical thinking and all that every

551
00:23:58,229 --> 00:23:54,460
time I go to one of these conventions I

552
00:24:00,029 --> 00:23:58,239
learn a hell of a lot so I'm converted

553
00:24:02,070 --> 00:24:00,039
and I'm happy to be preached to because

554
00:24:04,169 --> 00:24:02,080
I know I come away learning more and

555
00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:04,179
more i wonder what the ports are the

556
00:24:07,529 --> 00:24:06,340
people around the table well this kind

557
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:07,539
of started richard cuz there's an

558
00:24:11,460 --> 00:24:09,129
article in this month's skeptical

559
00:24:14,279 --> 00:24:11,470
inquirer written back out dr. karen

560
00:24:16,289 --> 00:24:14,289
stoles know about Tam 8 and she does

561
00:24:17,789 --> 00:24:16,299
mention that there was some people

562
00:24:19,409 --> 00:24:17,799
saying that it was really about

563
00:24:21,599 --> 00:24:19,419
preaching to the converted but it's also

564
00:24:24,599 --> 00:24:21,609
based on some of the discussion that's

565
00:24:26,820 --> 00:24:24,609
come off the end of term London and

566
00:24:28,290 --> 00:24:26,830
there were a couple of blogs that were

567
00:24:30,030 --> 00:24:28,300
citing

568
00:24:31,710 --> 00:24:30,040
first of all that it was preaching to

569
00:24:35,940 --> 00:24:31,720
the converted but second of all that it

570
00:24:39,210 --> 00:24:35,950
was excluding grassroots skeptics

571
00:24:41,460 --> 00:24:39,220
because by being elitist by having it in

572
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:41,470
a hotel where it costs 200 quid to go

573
00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:44,650
and that skeptics should really start

574
00:24:51,540 --> 00:24:46,960
thinking about you know what is really

575
00:24:54,780 --> 00:24:51,550
the the course of their ideas and and so

576
00:24:56,700 --> 00:24:54,790
I think yeah there's been that that's

577
00:24:58,350 --> 00:24:56,710
where it kind of started from you know

578
00:25:00,780 --> 00:24:58,360
which I think Joe's got something to add

579
00:25:03,390 --> 00:25:00,790
to that look I've read a few of the blog

580
00:25:06,060 --> 00:25:03,400
pieces that have been doing the rounds

581
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:06,070
at the moment and I've got a number of

582
00:25:12,810 --> 00:25:09,490
criticisms of of what's been said and

583
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:12,820
they go to a couple of issues number one

584
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:14,650
is the notion of preaching to the

585
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:17,110
converted I understand the concept and I

586
00:25:21,780 --> 00:25:20,410
think that in any community and in one

587
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:21,790
like The Skeptical community there is

588
00:25:26,340 --> 00:25:24,370
the risk sometime of of getting you know

589
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:26,350
getting too self-involved getting very

590
00:25:30,570 --> 00:25:29,110
involved in you know talking amongst

591
00:25:32,130 --> 00:25:30,580
ourselves in the end it's I think it's

592
00:25:36,420 --> 00:25:32,140
something that we can be mindful of

593
00:25:38,460 --> 00:25:36,430
however I think that there's the skeptic

594
00:25:40,770 --> 00:25:38,470
skepticism and the skeptical community

595
00:25:42,750 --> 00:25:40,780
is evolving and changing and

596
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:42,760
particularly in the last few years it

597
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:45,250
has been rapidly growing and people who

598
00:25:51,180 --> 00:25:48,400
previously would have been very you know

599
00:25:52,530 --> 00:25:51,190
aware of their own skepticism but not

600
00:25:54,690 --> 00:25:52,540
necessarily in contact with other

601
00:25:56,550 --> 00:25:54,700
skeptics have suddenly found that there

602
00:25:58,110 --> 00:25:56,560
are all these people out there who think

603
00:25:59,820 --> 00:25:58,120
the way they do and they're suddenly

604
00:26:01,620 --> 00:25:59,830
finding there's a community of people

605
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:01,630
out there who think the same way about

606
00:26:05,070 --> 00:26:03,730
the world and they want to nurture that

607
00:26:07,050 --> 00:26:05,080
and they want to develop it and they

608
00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:07,060
want to use it to make a difference the

609
00:26:13,260 --> 00:26:10,390
thing is conventions like Tam and and

610
00:26:15,420 --> 00:26:13,270
and Dragon Con and places which offer an

611
00:26:18,570 --> 00:26:15,430
opportunity for us all to get together I

612
00:26:22,290 --> 00:26:18,580
think are a valuable opportunity for us

613
00:26:24,510 --> 00:26:22,300
to brainstorm for us to be physically in

614
00:26:26,940 --> 00:26:24,520
the same place together to hear some of

615
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:26,950
the people who we admire actually talk

616
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:28,930
to us and really

617
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:31,840
use those as opportunities to then get

618
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:35,410
together and develop new groups you know

619
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:37,930
come up with ideas that we can then take

620
00:26:41,310 --> 00:26:40,090
out into the general you know you take

621
00:26:43,740 --> 00:26:41,320
out into the community and share with

622
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:43,750
the general public and I think that it's

623
00:26:51,930 --> 00:26:49,690
a bit of a incorrect notion to think

624
00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:51,940
that we're constantly preaching to the

625
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:53,350
converted these are valuable

626
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:55,090
opportunities to really get together and

627
00:26:59,520 --> 00:26:56,890
then disseminate what we know to our

628
00:27:01,650 --> 00:26:59,530
families and friends and in research and

629
00:27:05,070 --> 00:27:01,660
so on and I think it's a false way of

630
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:05,080
looking at it we only do this two three

631
00:27:09,270 --> 00:27:07,330
times a year maybe right we get there

632
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:09,280
and the rest of the time we're working

633
00:27:14,130 --> 00:27:11,650
our butts off writing blogs doing shows

634
00:27:17,730 --> 00:27:14,140
for kids going out and doing public

635
00:27:19,410 --> 00:27:17,740
speaking right now people right sure I

636
00:27:21,420 --> 00:27:19,420
just went to a conference in America

637
00:27:22,860 --> 00:27:21,430
which was a whole bunch of scientists do

638
00:27:24,420 --> 00:27:22,870
you think we SAT around afterwards going

639
00:27:27,180 --> 00:27:24,430
oh my god we only talked to the

640
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:27,190
scientists what a load of nonsense yeah

641
00:27:29,970 --> 00:27:28,510
of course we get together as a

642
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:29,980
professional group and talk about our

643
00:27:33,930 --> 00:27:31,930
work and then we all get back to our

644
00:27:36,270 --> 00:27:33,940
respective labs and we do our work then

645
00:27:38,430 --> 00:27:36,280
we go and talk it'sit's lively criticism

646
00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:38,440
that you know the skeptic these aletta

647
00:27:44,820 --> 00:27:41,710
skeptics just spend their time feeling

648
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:44,830
good gathering well it's it's the it's

649
00:27:47,970 --> 00:27:46,480
the inferences we sit there patting

650
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:47,980
ourselves on the back saying I'll we're

651
00:27:50,820 --> 00:27:49,570
really gonna and then what we go home

652
00:27:53,010 --> 00:27:50,830
for the rest of you and just sit back

653
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:53,020
and do nothing well I don't know about

654
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:56,050
you return I don't do nothing very well

655
00:27:59,130 --> 00:27:57,520
I was mean to bring up you do stuff for

656
00:28:03,330 --> 00:27:59,140
children but I don't think balloon

657
00:28:05,460 --> 00:28:03,340
folding to explain Planck time quantum

658
00:28:07,860 --> 00:28:05,470
entanglement really works that well for

659
00:28:09,450 --> 00:28:07,870
kids coming not sure you can make a cute

660
00:28:11,340 --> 00:28:09,460
little dash and out of balloons but well

661
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:11,350
there's actually important ailment I

662
00:28:17,130 --> 00:28:15,130
think the notion first of all I think

663
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:17,140
people are forgetting that the community

664
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:19,450
is important it drives people to do

665
00:28:24,390 --> 00:28:22,450
things then also there is this thing

666
00:28:26,850 --> 00:28:24,400
about not everybody having to actually

667
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:26,860
go out there let's assume that half the

668
00:28:30,180 --> 00:28:28,930
people at am you know what let's say

669
00:28:31,770 --> 00:28:30,190
three quarters of the people at time

670
00:28:34,620 --> 00:28:31,780
don't do anything other than going to

671
00:28:36,570 --> 00:28:34,630
town yeah that seed still leaves what

672
00:28:38,940 --> 00:28:36,580
was it 1400 people that were there this

673
00:28:40,890 --> 00:28:38,950
year 1300 people so that that leaves

674
00:28:42,370 --> 00:28:40,900
several hundred people who will actually

675
00:28:44,110 --> 00:28:42,380
after tambe reinvigorate

676
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:44,120
rated we'll know more people will know

677
00:28:48,550 --> 00:28:45,890
more things and we'll go out there and

678
00:28:49,750 --> 00:28:48,560
do things that's if only a quarter of a

679
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:49,760
third of all people actually do

680
00:28:53,950 --> 00:28:51,890
something what I want a classic example

681
00:28:56,350 --> 00:28:53,960
of this is our very good friend travis

682
00:28:59,800 --> 00:28:56,360
roy right the Granite State skeptics now

683
00:29:02,590 --> 00:28:59,810
I correspond with Travis quite a lot and

684
00:29:05,260 --> 00:29:02,600
my goodness me the amount of effort he

685
00:29:07,300 --> 00:29:05,270
is putting in to all sorts of skeptical

686
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:07,310
endeavors and this little thing but it

687
00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:08,930
only in New Hampshire them oh there you

688
00:29:12,550 --> 00:29:10,640
go can I just add something to that too

689
00:29:14,980 --> 00:29:12,560
I mean one of the criticisms critical

690
00:29:17,740 --> 00:29:14,990
blogs that was written after Tom London

691
00:29:19,510 --> 00:29:17,750
this year it could result in a lot of

692
00:29:22,780 --> 00:29:19,520
discussion and it turned out as far as

693
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:22,790
I'm aware from Tracy King that this guy

694
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:27,200
didn't even go to town oh so the person

695
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:29,810
who wrote the blog was super critical of

696
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:31,970
this elitism and saying that we're all

697
00:29:35,980 --> 00:29:33,290
sitting around going all good on you

698
00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:35,990
good on your mate and didn't go to term

699
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:37,910
and apparently has never been to him i

700
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:41,810
believe so it's the people that are not

701
00:29:46,030 --> 00:29:43,250
there that seems to be the ones in the

702
00:29:48,340 --> 00:29:46,040
most critical so grapes I mean yeah

703
00:29:50,410 --> 00:29:48,350
really I think maybe it's he wanted to

704
00:29:52,330 --> 00:29:50,420
do it and he couldn't afford and you

705
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:52,340
know you know we have the same thing

706
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:54,170
here now we're organizing Thomas right

707
00:29:57,070 --> 00:29:55,370
and we have people who complain about

708
00:29:59,200 --> 00:29:57,080
the price but the reality is that these

709
00:30:01,600 --> 00:29:59,210
things cost money but these are not the

710
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:01,610
only things that you can do in

711
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:03,410
skepticism these are not even their only

712
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:04,970
social events there's plenty of other

713
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:07,610
opportunities and you know what it's

714
00:30:10,750 --> 00:30:09,200
turning into you now around it's kind of

715
00:30:12,790 --> 00:30:10,760
like shifting the goal person away

716
00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:12,800
because people are saying or we can't

717
00:30:15,910 --> 00:30:14,960
afford it and we're saying well this is

718
00:30:17,740 --> 00:30:15,920
not the only thing and then they're

719
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:17,750
saying oh yeah but because time is

720
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:20,090
around that's crushing the skeptics in

721
00:30:23,410 --> 00:30:21,650
the pub things that we use absolutely i

722
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:23,420
drew its reiterating its making it

723
00:30:29,050 --> 00:30:27,170
bigger visit now a second drinking

724
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:29,060
skeptically or skeptics in the pub night

725
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:31,730
in sip in sydney it's starting next

726
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:34,010
month in november it says I think it's

727
00:30:38,150 --> 00:30:35,930
just there's absolutely no evidence at

728
00:30:42,170 --> 00:30:39,980
that's the case there's no evidence at

729
00:30:44,420 --> 00:30:42,180
all that time and other organized

730
00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:44,430
skeptical events that cost money have

731
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:47,580
anything at all to do with reducing the

732
00:30:50,660 --> 00:30:49,530
level of a skeptical activism I think if

733
00:30:52,490 --> 00:30:50,670
anything else they probably after

734
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:52,500
setting mode yeah yeah I've isn't look

735
00:30:56,510 --> 00:30:54,690
as something who is someone who is the

736
00:30:58,250 --> 00:30:56,520
least educated around this table of the

737
00:30:59,240 --> 00:30:58,260
like so if you were to look at and

738
00:31:01,640 --> 00:30:59,250
you've noticed me writing down words

739
00:31:03,410 --> 00:31:01,650
because I notice you're using words to

740
00:31:05,810 --> 00:31:03,420
describe this almost in a religious

741
00:31:07,540 --> 00:31:05,820
connotation I mean we've heard preaching

742
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:07,550
we've heard believers we've heard

743
00:31:12,650 --> 00:31:10,170
converted the only word and you almost

744
00:31:14,930 --> 00:31:12,660
hit on it then was evangelistic you

745
00:31:17,210 --> 00:31:14,940
almost use the word evangelistic there

746
00:31:18,380 --> 00:31:17,220
and and I think that's interesting that

747
00:31:20,450 --> 00:31:18,390
you're describing almost what you're

748
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:20,460
doing in in religious terms some ways

749
00:31:23,930 --> 00:31:22,530
which is not all what you're doing I

750
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:23,940
imagine there's a few atheists in the

751
00:31:32,510 --> 00:31:28,170
skeptic movement to you see an ideal and

752
00:31:34,490 --> 00:31:32,520
it's almost like action I saw them out

753
00:31:37,610 --> 00:31:34,500
and make sure you do it like the

754
00:31:39,770 --> 00:31:37,620
Catholics do send around twice right and

755
00:31:41,780 --> 00:31:39,780
look at it and it's almost like this

756
00:31:44,510 --> 00:31:41,790
SKism going on is that the curriculum

757
00:31:46,460 --> 00:31:44,520
yeah yeah I'm dealing all we've got the

758
00:31:48,500 --> 00:31:46,470
elite people Oh in its I'm gonna now

759
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:48,510
something to add or by a few people

760
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:50,850
complaining i don't think it's it schism

761
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:52,650
would imply that there's a majority or a

762
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:54,210
large number of people who complain I

763
00:31:57,260 --> 00:31:55,530
think it's small number of people are

764
00:32:00,140 --> 00:31:57,270
complaining now I think the technical

765
00:32:02,540 --> 00:32:00,150
term is grumble bums grumble bum like

766
00:32:05,090 --> 00:32:02,550
you know there's nothing wrong and I've

767
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:05,100
heard this on on non skeptical podcasts

768
00:32:08,330 --> 00:32:06,930
there's nothing wrong with preaching to

769
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:08,340
the choir because eventually the choir

770
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:10,650
will go out and be evangelistic if they

771
00:32:14,330 --> 00:32:12,810
believe well and anyway and you know i

772
00:32:15,860 --> 00:32:14,340
can understand people thinking you're

773
00:32:17,570 --> 00:32:15,870
being elitist but if you put these

774
00:32:18,980 --> 00:32:17,580
things on they cost a certain amount and

775
00:32:22,130 --> 00:32:18,990
you have to do them for a certain price

776
00:32:24,290 --> 00:32:22,140
and you know yeah i mean ever they might

777
00:32:25,790 --> 00:32:24,300
look G look I would go to a conspiracy

778
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:25,800
convention in a heartbeat we just don't

779
00:32:29,780 --> 00:32:27,690
have them here in Australia I mean I

780
00:32:32,390 --> 00:32:29,790
silly yes doing video yeah i'm able

781
00:32:34,100 --> 00:32:32,400
decided not they're not that big bore

782
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:34,110
the 40 and x has a great body knows

783
00:32:39,170 --> 00:32:37,770
about the Mulsanne tell her comments one

784
00:32:41,630 --> 00:32:39,180
of the comments that was made on one of

785
00:32:43,580 --> 00:32:41,640
the blogs was um the the in fact it

786
00:32:45,529 --> 00:32:43,590
wasn't a blog it was actually an article

787
00:32:48,049 --> 00:32:45,539
that was published

788
00:32:51,019 --> 00:32:48,059
and and the wording was something along

789
00:32:53,899 --> 00:32:51,029
the lines of why do X when you could do

790
00:32:57,109 --> 00:32:53,909
y in other words why go to gatherings of

791
00:32:58,700 --> 00:32:57,119
skeptics and navel gaze and talk coins

792
00:33:00,349 --> 00:32:58,710
to each other and Pat each other on the

793
00:33:01,609 --> 00:33:00,359
back when you could be going out there

794
00:33:03,889 --> 00:33:01,619
and sharing all this information with

795
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:03,899
the general public and and a comment

796
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:04,799
that was made on this which I thought

797
00:33:09,469 --> 00:33:06,330
was really important is that it's a

798
00:33:11,779 --> 00:33:09,479
false dichotomy why is it one or the

799
00:33:14,330 --> 00:33:11,789
other yeah you can't yeah I mean I mean

800
00:33:16,639 --> 00:33:14,340
it much like in medicine or anything

801
00:33:19,460 --> 00:33:16,649
else or any other scientific endeavor

802
00:33:20,810 --> 00:33:19,470
anything really you can't have the group

803
00:33:23,089 --> 00:33:20,820
of people who are part of our community

804
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:23,099
not talking amongst each other and

805
00:33:27,139 --> 00:33:24,450
they're creating hating that to other

806
00:33:28,729 --> 00:33:27,149
people yes otherwise it's really just

807
00:33:30,259 --> 00:33:28,739
one individual going around and talking

808
00:33:31,339 --> 00:33:30,269
to people about being skeptical if

809
00:33:34,039 --> 00:33:31,349
you're not communicating with other

810
00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:34,049
skeptics and I think no one you've heard

811
00:33:38,839 --> 00:33:37,049
about how do you know what is what what

812
00:33:40,190 --> 00:33:38,849
are the buzz issues how do you know I

813
00:33:42,169 --> 00:33:40,200
mean obviously you can do it from just

814
00:33:43,639 --> 00:33:42,179
reading and so on but you need to be

815
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:43,649
communicating to other people you need

816
00:33:47,450 --> 00:33:45,450
to actually be arguing with other people

817
00:33:49,339 --> 00:33:47,460
i mean arguing his important debate is

818
00:33:51,859 --> 00:33:49,349
important no one is saying it's not but

819
00:33:53,570 --> 00:33:51,869
but Joe is a preposterous position to

820
00:33:56,419 --> 00:33:53,580
take because every industry every

821
00:33:58,399 --> 00:33:56,429
discipline has people get together and

822
00:34:00,169 --> 00:33:58,409
discuss things by nature we do it every

823
00:34:02,180 --> 00:34:00,179
day we all have jobs we go to work we

824
00:34:05,989 --> 00:34:02,190
discuss it with our colleagues I think

825
00:34:08,990 --> 00:34:05,999
part of the six per the other week Lena

826
00:34:12,109 --> 00:34:09,000
I do again and again and again hot video

827
00:34:14,659 --> 00:34:12,119
that one I know where can people see

828
00:34:16,490 --> 00:34:14,669
that video o course at your site at my

829
00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:16,500
side maintain calm do you or thank you

830
00:34:19,940 --> 00:34:18,510
or just anywhere but I think what you're

831
00:34:22,970 --> 00:34:19,950
getting it i think people send have a

832
00:34:25,010 --> 00:34:22,980
great fear of intellectual elitism which

833
00:34:27,020 --> 00:34:25,020
which skeptics are accused of quite a

834
00:34:28,369 --> 00:34:27,030
bit mainly because you guys have you

835
00:34:30,409 --> 00:34:28,379
know you've actually got you know a

836
00:34:31,879 --> 00:34:30,419
credit at university and that kind of

837
00:34:34,339 --> 00:34:31,889
stuff and you didn't have the bottle

838
00:34:36,799 --> 00:34:34,349
precisely actually think what people

839
00:34:40,460 --> 00:34:36,809
dying yeah i think it's not about that i

840
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:40,470
think really I I see all the criticism

841
00:34:44,419 --> 00:34:42,480
and I think it's all to do with money

842
00:34:46,250 --> 00:34:44,429
it's all to do with the fact that these

843
00:34:47,869 --> 00:34:46,260
events cost money yeah a lot of people

844
00:34:49,849 --> 00:34:47,879
can't afford them yeah and the reason I

845
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:49,859
think it's that is because you don't see

846
00:34:53,299 --> 00:34:51,450
any criticism for example of different

847
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:53,309
forms of skeptics in the pub I mean

848
00:34:55,879 --> 00:34:54,450
there are skeptics in the pub with a

849
00:34:57,210 --> 00:34:55,889
speaker there's ones where they just

850
00:34:59,820 --> 00:34:57,220
drink in

851
00:35:00,930 --> 00:34:59,830
talk amongst themselves I'm talking

852
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:00,940
about that reminds I was going to the

853
00:35:07,710 --> 00:35:05,410
bar now for those that said what he said

854
00:35:09,210 --> 00:35:07,720
a key word there which activated an MK

855
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:09,220
ULTRA thing in my mind to go to the bar

856
00:35:14,099 --> 00:35:11,530
so I'll be back scene don't know what MK

857
00:35:15,660 --> 00:35:14,109
ULTRA is say oh you people know what I'm

858
00:35:18,359 --> 00:35:15,670
talking about he's off actually there he

859
00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:18,369
goes after them of the bar Iran you

860
00:35:23,700 --> 00:35:21,760
quickly before he comes back so I think

861
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:23,710
the fact that there's no criticism over

862
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:26,290
are the forms of skeptics skeptical

863
00:35:30,300 --> 00:35:28,960
activities that do not cost money raises

864
00:35:32,250 --> 00:35:30,310
the suspicion in me that it's very

865
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:32,260
likely to be simple simply people who

866
00:35:35,970 --> 00:35:34,510
really want to participate in time but

867
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:35,980
can't because they can't afford it or

868
00:35:39,420 --> 00:35:38,050
that they think all skeptical activity

869
00:35:43,410 --> 00:35:39,430
should be free which i think is just

870
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:43,420
silly yeah and I just don't understand

871
00:35:49,170 --> 00:35:46,090
this notion of it's as if people have a

872
00:35:51,180 --> 00:35:49,180
right to attend tam it's an event it

873
00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:51,190
costs money to produce it costs

874
00:35:55,410 --> 00:35:53,710
therefore it costs money to attend even

875
00:35:57,060 --> 00:35:55,420
if the organization's organizing it

876
00:35:59,339 --> 00:35:57,070
we're actually making money which we

877
00:36:01,080 --> 00:35:59,349
know is not the case but let's let's

878
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:01,090
even say that was the case okay let's

879
00:36:04,140 --> 00:36:03,040
say that jf and Australia's get us were

880
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:04,150
making hundreds of thousands of dollars

881
00:36:09,089 --> 00:36:07,210
out of time so what I mean nobody has a

882
00:36:11,220 --> 00:36:09,099
right to attend any of these events it's

883
00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:11,230
a privilege and we would we've done a

884
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:12,609
lot too for example from our perspective

885
00:36:16,140 --> 00:36:14,050
done a lot to make sure that as many

886
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:16,150
people as possible can attend but not

887
00:36:21,450 --> 00:36:19,690
only that Iran that not that the four of

888
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:21,460
us left at the table now who are

889
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:24,640
involved in town have terribly much to

890
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:27,040
do with this but there is an awful lot

891
00:36:33,060 --> 00:36:31,119
of free events around town you know the

892
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:33,070
fringe events yet hub nights and

893
00:36:37,740 --> 00:36:35,440
meetings and groups and activities so

894
00:36:39,870 --> 00:36:37,750
even if if if you missed a ticket or you

895
00:36:42,839 --> 00:36:39,880
can't afford it you can still meet these

896
00:36:44,190 --> 00:36:42,849
people and have a great time but I'm

897
00:36:45,630 --> 00:36:44,200
just saying in front of you it should I

898
00:36:47,130 --> 00:36:45,640
know this is a bit of a segue now i'm

899
00:36:50,579 --> 00:36:47,140
reading upside down an email from

900
00:36:52,980 --> 00:36:50,589
someone saying belfast had their first

901
00:36:54,750 --> 00:36:52,990
meeting this month well i mean they must

902
00:36:56,849 --> 00:36:54,760
have got inspired from somewhere I was

903
00:36:58,680 --> 00:36:56,859
just about to uh SAT around

904
00:37:00,359 --> 00:36:58,690
themselves had an epiphany oh well let

905
00:37:01,710 --> 00:37:00,369
me know they probably had made a

906
00:37:05,309 --> 00:37:01,720
collection and then he could afford

907
00:37:07,650 --> 00:37:05,319
listening to podcast let me mention that

908
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:07,660
right now I was gonna come to this sorry

909
00:37:11,999 --> 00:37:09,249
Joe oh sorry Richard no no what I was

910
00:37:13,319 --> 00:37:12,009
going to say was I mean you know I I I

911
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:13,329
think I've said before on the podcast

912
00:37:18,479 --> 00:37:16,210
that until I really knew that I was a

913
00:37:21,479 --> 00:37:18,489
skeptic I thought this way my whole life

914
00:37:24,989 --> 00:37:21,489
and I'd known about the Australian

915
00:37:27,150 --> 00:37:24,999
skeptics for a good 10 years it was only

916
00:37:29,729 --> 00:37:27,160
you know and I'm about four years ago

917
00:37:31,079 --> 00:37:29,739
that I really yeah that it was not that

918
00:37:34,170 --> 00:37:31,089
long ago bit but the thing was that it

919
00:37:35,910 --> 00:37:34,180
took it was really a lot to do with my

920
00:37:38,039 --> 00:37:35,920
awareness through a lot of the stuff

921
00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:38,049
that is going on in the community that

922
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:39,609
gave me the confidence to actually say

923
00:37:43,890 --> 00:37:40,930
hey this is a group of people I want to

924
00:37:45,660 --> 00:37:43,900
try and get in contact with and for me

925
00:37:48,150 --> 00:37:45,670
very glad you did because I think you

926
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:48,160
better you know I I made a choice to get

927
00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:50,079
involved in this end of the thing the

928
00:37:55,170 --> 00:37:53,200
thing about skepticism The Skeptical

929
00:37:56,819 --> 00:37:55,180
community whatever you want to call us

930
00:37:59,579 --> 00:37:56,829
whatever it is that we're doing is

931
00:38:01,499 --> 00:37:59,589
really a choice of how much you want to

932
00:38:02,729 --> 00:38:01,509
put into it and how much you want to get

933
00:38:04,049 --> 00:38:02,739
out again what you want to do with it

934
00:38:07,859 --> 00:38:04,059
and there are there are people out there

935
00:38:09,779 --> 00:38:07,869
who are being referred to as small as

936
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:09,789
skeptics and they're people who you know

937
00:38:13,289 --> 00:38:11,650
think of themselves as skeptics and they

938
00:38:14,999 --> 00:38:13,299
go about their life and they utilize the

939
00:38:17,819 --> 00:38:15,009
tools of critical thinking and so on and

940
00:38:20,069 --> 00:38:17,829
then there are those of us who really

941
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:20,079
are trying to actually be more activist

942
00:38:25,140 --> 00:38:22,930
in the community and they don't kind

943
00:38:27,450 --> 00:38:25,150
exactly and I think that there are there

944
00:38:30,269 --> 00:38:27,460
is a lot of different machinery out here

945
00:38:33,509 --> 00:38:30,279
that is making this work and some of it

946
00:38:35,279 --> 00:38:33,519
is driven by small individuals out there

947
00:38:37,079 --> 00:38:35,289
doing tiny little things and some of it

948
00:38:41,220 --> 00:38:37,089
is driven by the bigger organizations

949
00:38:43,710 --> 00:38:41,230
and I think that it is really unfair to

950
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:43,720
say fun fairs right where but i think

951
00:38:48,809 --> 00:38:46,450
it's not it's not helpful to say that

952
00:38:54,599 --> 00:38:48,819
those bigger organizations are somehow

953
00:38:56,039 --> 00:38:54,609
it's almost conspiracy theories the

954
00:38:57,299 --> 00:38:56,049
thing is that when Tom London was

955
00:39:00,539 --> 00:38:57,309
happening and this whole business was

956
00:39:02,279 --> 00:39:00,549
about because the je reve said the money

957
00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:02,289
that they're made from town would go on

958
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:04,680
funding to stuff in the UK

959
00:39:08,270 --> 00:39:06,210
and there was all this stuff on Twitter

960
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:08,280
about where is it going to go are we

961
00:39:11,299 --> 00:39:09,599
going to know where it's going to go can

962
00:39:13,099 --> 00:39:11,309
we apply for the funds we want to know

963
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:13,109
where it's going to go as if it was

964
00:39:17,710 --> 00:39:15,210
people's right to know where the jrf

965
00:39:20,930 --> 00:39:17,720
would send their money throughout the UK

966
00:39:22,670 --> 00:39:20,940
now i agree with you around that it says

967
00:39:24,260 --> 00:39:22,680
it's really bizarre to me it's this

968
00:39:26,839 --> 00:39:24,270
whole thing about ownership that seems

969
00:39:28,670 --> 00:39:26,849
to happen in this community and you know

970
00:39:30,170 --> 00:39:28,680
I work in an industry as well where

971
00:39:32,210 --> 00:39:30,180
there's a lot of people involved from

972
00:39:34,510 --> 00:39:32,220
different levels and different you know

973
00:39:36,829 --> 00:39:34,520
education but they don't seem to

974
00:39:38,299 --> 00:39:36,839
whenever we have scientific conferences

975
00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:38,309
the people that can't afford to go don't

976
00:39:42,740 --> 00:39:39,839
start their feet and write a livid blog

977
00:39:44,780 --> 00:39:42,750
you know what I mean I just and if you

978
00:39:46,190 --> 00:39:44,790
want to go and see the village people

979
00:39:47,930 --> 00:39:46,200
with main art and you don't have a

980
00:39:50,329 --> 00:39:47,940
hundred and fifty bucks you know excuse

981
00:39:54,020 --> 00:39:50,339
me it's Village People they are a

982
00:39:55,730 --> 00:39:54,030
another they're not how many times have

983
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:55,740
to tell you they're not a collective

984
00:40:02,390 --> 00:39:59,760
noun apologize but if you can't afford

985
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:02,400
to go and see may not supporting village

986
00:40:07,099 --> 00:40:05,130
village people then you just cop it

987
00:40:10,430 --> 00:40:07,109
sweet you don't and you you know you

988
00:40:11,660 --> 00:40:10,440
don't attack the whole live music

989
00:40:14,420 --> 00:40:11,670
industry and say it's all a conspiracy

990
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:14,430
and we are somehow then excluded from

991
00:40:19,609 --> 00:40:17,040
that from going to see a bad the local

992
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:19,619
music or fair yeah i I'm nothing nothing

993
00:40:25,460 --> 00:40:22,170
about being unable to attend a big event

994
00:40:27,260 --> 00:40:25,470
like tam excludes you from being a

995
00:40:28,370 --> 00:40:27,270
skeptic or being part of the skeptical

996
00:40:31,069 --> 00:40:28,380
community of contributing in whatever

997
00:40:33,950 --> 00:40:31,079
way you want to yeah yes oh you know

998
00:40:37,250 --> 00:40:33,960
David Powell from Belfast has written to

999
00:40:38,690 --> 00:40:37,260
me don't look shocked manner David pal

1000
00:40:39,950 --> 00:40:38,700
from Belfast has written to me saying

1001
00:40:42,049 --> 00:40:39,960
that they've got a skeptics in the pub

1002
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:42,059
now they'll be meeting on the six of

1003
00:40:47,569 --> 00:40:44,010
November when they'll be having a talk

1004
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:47,579
by mind reader David need Nelson

1005
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:50,400
optimist I would love to go drinking

1006
00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:53,250
with Irish skeptics that would be that

1007
00:40:57,789 --> 00:40:55,440
would be cool I would love to go skepta

1008
00:41:02,420 --> 00:40:57,799
Singh skip to sing with Irish drinkers

1009
00:41:04,940 --> 00:41:02,430
but how how I would love to be there

1010
00:41:06,530 --> 00:41:04,950
what a great occasion that would be look

1011
00:41:08,900 --> 00:41:06,540
folks if you want to know more about the

1012
00:41:11,930 --> 00:41:08,910
Belfast skeptics the advice is to head

1013
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:11,940
to Facebook head to Facebook and just

1014
00:41:16,420 --> 00:41:14,130
search for belfast skeptics give them a

1015
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:16,430
look on on the old google there

1016
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:18,050
they've got a facebook group at the

1017
00:41:22,270 --> 00:41:20,570
moment which is a series of numbers

1018
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:22,280
really but just look for Baelfire

1019
00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:24,170
skeptics look all the best Baelfire

1020
00:41:27,850 --> 00:41:25,730
skeptics how I wish and I'm sure

1021
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:27,860
everybody at this table wish we could

1022
00:41:32,230 --> 00:41:29,930
jump on the plane tomorrow and and join

1023
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:32,240
with you we would love to end the start

1024
00:41:36,010 --> 00:41:33,530
of winter there i'm not sure you want to

1025
00:41:38,620 --> 00:41:36,020
do it look mate I tell you I would be on

1026
00:41:42,010 --> 00:41:38,630
that plane tomorrow I really maybe and

1027
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:42,020
laughing mrs. they're Irish Bruce is why

1028
00:41:48,820 --> 00:41:46,730
it's the plural of macy's nice and send

1029
00:41:54,850 --> 00:41:48,830
us some photos from that event I can put

1030
00:41:56,770 --> 00:41:54,860
them up on the side dad three two dads

1031
00:41:58,390 --> 00:41:56,780
there's a new word has entered the

1032
00:42:00,190 --> 00:41:58,400
language we've made up a new word for

1033
00:42:03,670 --> 00:42:00,200
the sound that a moose makes when it's

1034
00:42:08,140 --> 00:42:03,680
walking in the snow what it is plop

1035
00:42:09,910 --> 00:42:08,150
plop-plop-plop-plop but of course one of

1036
00:42:11,230 --> 00:42:09,920
the other huge events is happening in

1037
00:42:14,830 --> 00:42:11,240
the next few months here in australia

1038
00:42:18,100 --> 00:42:14,840
and new zealand is the styrofoam tour by

1039
00:42:21,490 --> 00:42:18,110
George rub oh yeah goodness gracious me

1040
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:21,500
he's goin everywhere he's going to

1041
00:42:27,130 --> 00:42:24,050
Brisbane Melbourne Christ chest Oakland

1042
00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:27,140
Adelaide Canberra Sydney the guy is

1043
00:42:34,090 --> 00:42:31,310
going to be a wreck um all I considered

1044
00:42:38,290 --> 00:42:34,100
walking is that the problem he is I'm

1045
00:42:39,700 --> 00:42:38,300
not going in an order that makes not is

1046
00:42:43,210 --> 00:42:39,710
a bit of a visual thing but he's sort of

1047
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:43,220
going like this around the head around

1048
00:42:47,590 --> 00:42:46,130
the back of the head ok George rub will

1049
00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:47,600
be a town here of course on the

1050
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:49,310
twenty-sixth of 20th November here in

1051
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:51,410
Sydney then he's heading up to brisbane

1052
00:42:56,650 --> 00:42:54,890
on monday the 29th and november to do a

1053
00:42:59,020 --> 00:42:56,660
gig location to be announced at the

1054
00:43:01,270 --> 00:42:59,030
moment on the 30th or november he's

1055
00:43:04,180 --> 00:43:01,280
going to be in melbourne at the clyde

1056
00:43:05,740 --> 00:43:04,190
hotel in carlton and then the first to

1057
00:43:09,370 --> 00:43:05,750
December he's in New Zealand in

1058
00:43:11,470 --> 00:43:09,380
Christchurch the twisted hop at in

1059
00:43:15,220 --> 00:43:11,480
Christchurch Auckland on the second of

1060
00:43:17,050 --> 00:43:15,230
December which has the details of yet to

1061
00:43:18,580 --> 00:43:17,060
come along should you join to music

1062
00:43:20,750 --> 00:43:18,590
behind that lighter announcing it all

1063
00:43:24,569 --> 00:43:20,760
right

1064
00:43:26,849 --> 00:43:24,579
yes think you may not talk about a

1065
00:43:28,859 --> 00:43:26,859
delayed on the third of december at the

1066
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:28,869
Royal Institute of Australia Adelaide

1067
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:31,359
and Canberra on the fifth of December at

1068
00:43:36,569 --> 00:43:33,040
King o'malley's irish pub where you and

1069
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:36,579
I spoke Rachel the styrofoam tour if

1070
00:43:39,839 --> 00:43:38,290
people just Google George harav

1071
00:43:43,650 --> 00:43:39,849
australian tour they'll certainly get

1072
00:43:44,940 --> 00:43:43,660
more up-to-date information wow I mean

1073
00:43:46,589 --> 00:43:44,950
this guy is going to be a wreck by the

1074
00:43:48,809 --> 00:43:46,599
end of it but he's one of the best acts

1075
00:43:52,349 --> 00:43:48,819
I've seen in The Skeptical world a great

1076
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:52,359
musician a fantastic show do not miss

1077
00:43:56,010 --> 00:43:54,880
George horrible styrofoam so have we

1078
00:43:57,420 --> 00:43:56,020
changed the name of the tour to the

1079
00:44:11,810 --> 00:43:57,430
armor and the back of the neck to an

1080
00:44:16,770 --> 00:44:14,520
disease no Jonas laughs but they do

1081
00:44:18,420 --> 00:44:16,780
speak the bus is smaller i think that's

1082
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:18,430
one that's it that was many people

1083
00:44:24,359 --> 00:44:22,330
getting on now listeners may be aware if

1084
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:24,369
you list if you are listen if you want

1085
00:44:32,130 --> 00:44:27,490
if you look at the skeptics website WWE

1086
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:32,140
tix calm day you a few days ago I put up

1087
00:44:36,390 --> 00:44:33,970
a little report i did about the hot

1088
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:36,400
fanned the hot band folks is that for

1089
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:39,490
period pain as well it could be which is

1090
00:44:45,930 --> 00:44:41,890
a knockoff of the power balance which is

1091
00:44:49,260 --> 00:44:45,940
his choice magazine have said a con a

1092
00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:49,270
barefaced a barefaced color I'm wearing

1093
00:44:56,609 --> 00:44:51,280
a couple of placebo bands on me at the

1094
00:44:59,040 --> 00:44:56,619
moment but chemist warehouse chemist

1095
00:45:01,740 --> 00:44:59,050
warehouse are selling the hot band oh

1096
00:45:05,849 --> 00:45:01,750
I've been there oh oh that's great place

1097
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:05,859
yes it is various to you in mainland can

1098
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:08,050
I say look I paid for the the tam

1099
00:45:15,990 --> 00:45:10,330
thinking it was the amazing medication

1100
00:45:17,700 --> 00:45:16,000
nothing of the sort anyway the chemist

1101
00:45:21,210 --> 00:45:17,710
warehouse which is a chain here in

1102
00:45:23,490 --> 00:45:21,220
Australia are selling a hologram Percy

1103
00:45:25,500 --> 00:45:23,500
bow device that's be honestly ok it's

1104
00:45:28,829 --> 00:45:25,510
got two Holograms Holograms I'm sorry

1105
00:45:30,660 --> 00:45:28,839
Lindsay twice a strong and a good friend

1106
00:45:33,060 --> 00:45:30,670
of ours a good skeptical by the name of

1107
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:33,070
Chris Higgins wrote to them saying you

1108
00:45:36,349 --> 00:45:34,210
know what are you playing at why are you

1109
00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:36,359
selling this stuff here's the reply

1110
00:45:41,790 --> 00:45:39,250
here's the reply from chemist warehouse

1111
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:41,800
that he received I think only today or

1112
00:45:49,620 --> 00:45:45,490
yesterday whilst we appreciate your

1113
00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:49,630
point of view regarding holistic

1114
00:45:54,450 --> 00:45:52,480
homeopathic products are Chris also

1115
00:45:57,930 --> 00:45:54,460
mentioned those in his emails wells hot

1116
00:45:59,880 --> 00:45:57,940
band in dismissing them as placebos the

1117
00:46:02,760 --> 00:45:59,890
Australian public has a wide and varied

1118
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:02,770
belief in all things such as religion

1119
00:46:07,340 --> 00:46:05,490
and medicine what's religion sorry

1120
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:07,350
we got to do with it it's a god

1121
00:46:27,010 --> 00:46:09,690
everything's good that they made the

1122
00:46:30,170 --> 00:46:27,020
link laughs you love so much sisters

1123
00:46:33,650 --> 00:46:30,180
they go on to say we believe that if

1124
00:46:36,050 --> 00:46:33,660
even one person can be alleviated of

1125
00:46:38,660 --> 00:46:36,060
their pain or symptoms from the use of

1126
00:46:42,140 --> 00:46:38,670
any of these alternative products or be

1127
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:42,150
it as a placebo effect then we are doing

1128
00:46:46,070 --> 00:46:44,610
a community service I think that I think

1129
00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:46,080
that we should all Twitter that when we

1130
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:48,480
get home this is exactly the same

1131
00:46:55,460 --> 00:46:52,530
response that the CEO of boots gave the

1132
00:46:56,690 --> 00:46:55,470
inquiry in the in the UK about the fact

1133
00:47:00,320 --> 00:46:56,700
that they're selling homeopathic

1134
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:00,330
remedies and I believe that the response

1135
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:02,730
there from the chairperson of the

1136
00:47:08,109 --> 00:47:05,090
committee was something along the lines

1137
00:47:11,109 --> 00:47:08,119
that's not a serious argument is it i

1138
00:47:13,010 --> 00:47:11,119
remember rebecca was reporting on it and

1139
00:47:15,410 --> 00:47:13,020
she said something along those lines

1140
00:47:16,970 --> 00:47:15,420
Deary me it's a strange world into the

1141
00:47:18,890 --> 00:47:16,980
evidence check and said we know it

1142
00:47:20,780 --> 00:47:18,900
doesn't work but our patient our

1143
00:47:22,130 --> 00:47:20,790
customers want to buy it so we sell it

1144
00:47:24,260 --> 00:47:22,140
even though we know it doesn't work I

1145
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:24,270
think he also said something along the

1146
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:27,810
lines of why would people buy if you

1147
00:47:33,109 --> 00:47:29,730
didn't work or something like that and

1148
00:47:35,150 --> 00:47:33,119
that the response that was serious

1149
00:47:37,430 --> 00:47:35,160
that's not a serious argument let me

1150
00:47:39,580 --> 00:47:37,440
sorry my little it's a very quickly two

1151
00:47:43,970 --> 00:47:39,590
more things than everybody else have a

1152
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:43,980
ramble I know you're waiting just to let

1153
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:46,290
people know that I've had word that

1154
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:48,210
there's an alert gone out to parents

1155
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:50,730
here in Sydney about whooping cough yeah

1156
00:47:55,070 --> 00:47:52,890
which is very sad that this is still

1157
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:55,080
raising its ugly head ten babies have

1158
00:48:00,390 --> 00:47:57,370
died now in California yeah

1159
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:00,400
really that's terrible and a quick story

1160
00:48:06,180 --> 00:48:03,610
again to do these power devices that now

1161
00:48:09,810 --> 00:48:06,190
the Richard almond who is the host of

1162
00:48:11,610 --> 00:48:09,820
dogma free America podcast for various

1163
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:11,620
channels including travis roy has

1164
00:48:25,590 --> 00:48:21,420
promoting or using something called the

1165
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:25,600
power force which as you might guess is

1166
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:28,690
yet another energy wristband and don't

1167
00:48:32,970 --> 00:48:29,770
get the cheap ones you got to get the

1168
00:48:35,130 --> 00:48:32,980
one that hold in place I have no idea

1169
00:48:36,540 --> 00:48:35,140
what you're talking about no one here

1170
00:48:41,370 --> 00:48:36,550
seems to be shooting a cheer for the

1171
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:41,380
death of paul paul the psychic octopus

1172
00:48:52,260 --> 00:48:49,650
just about every one of my news item for

1173
00:48:55,590 --> 00:48:52,270
this week so matter do we know if Paul

1174
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:55,600
died of natural causes all age I'd I

1175
00:49:00,060 --> 00:48:57,370
suspect so because if it have been some

1176
00:49:01,470 --> 00:49:00,070
hint he obviously would have known but

1177
00:49:02,910 --> 00:49:01,480
you couldn't have prevented it though

1178
00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:02,920
putting this looks I think once he got

1179
00:49:06,690 --> 00:49:04,720
famous you know he got into the usual

1180
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:06,700
thing got crazy on the GAC got drinking

1181
00:49:10,110 --> 00:49:08,650
and you know like if you pull the bottle

1182
00:49:11,850 --> 00:49:10,120
of alcohol into the tank that you're in

1183
00:49:13,650 --> 00:49:11,860
it's not a good toxic environment you

1184
00:49:15,810 --> 00:49:13,660
know what I reckon happened he had his

1185
00:49:17,220 --> 00:49:15,820
like his peak during the world cup and

1186
00:49:19,470 --> 00:49:17,230
then nobody there was nothing nobody

1187
00:49:21,540 --> 00:49:19,480
interested about him anymore and then he

1188
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:21,550
fell into drugs and he ended up in a

1189
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:23,890
hotel room by himself taking smoking

1190
00:49:35,460 --> 00:49:25,810
drugs drinking beer and they'll sleep on

1191
00:49:38,100 --> 00:49:35,470
a barbecue she's gonna leave a look

1192
00:49:41,730 --> 00:49:38,110
around the corner you can't be an

1193
00:49:45,300 --> 00:49:41,740
involuntary with no Charles III was only

1194
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:45,310
going to to bring to everyone's

1195
00:49:51,630 --> 00:49:48,370
attention my um my bad research design

1196
00:49:53,730 --> 00:49:51,640
for the week yes nor so um you know I I

1197
00:49:55,980 --> 00:49:53,740
have a look at him you know nursing

1198
00:49:58,570 --> 00:49:55,990
journals fairly regularly and oh they do

1199
00:50:02,560 --> 00:49:58,580
I can't even run not that kind

1200
00:50:07,610 --> 00:50:02,570
Maynard and I came across one recently

1201
00:50:11,030 --> 00:50:07,620
but it was it was done by a doctrine a

1202
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:11,040
couple of nurses in in America and the

1203
00:50:14,300 --> 00:50:12,720
title of the article is endoscopic

1204
00:50:17,690 --> 00:50:14,310
procedure with a modified Reiki

1205
00:50:19,310 --> 00:50:17,700
intervention yeah what what basically

1206
00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:19,320
that's I'll give you hungry for you pal

1207
00:50:25,790 --> 00:50:21,660
okay much more pleasant that way yeah

1208
00:50:28,610 --> 00:50:25,800
hey I am I work I work in their room

1209
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:28,620
where we do colonoscopies and they can

1210
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:30,090
be quite painful procedures and they're

1211
00:50:34,010 --> 00:50:31,770
not usually done under an anesthetic and

1212
00:50:35,690 --> 00:50:34,020
I've noticed more and more these days in

1213
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:35,700
the literature a lot of lot of nurses

1214
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:37,530
are dabbling in doing things like reiki

1215
00:50:41,390 --> 00:50:39,210
during colonoscopies and things like

1216
00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:41,400
Ryan that I thought comfortable we're

1217
00:50:44,060 --> 00:50:42,510
done under general anesthetic effect

1218
00:50:46,010 --> 00:50:44,070
they're not if you go to a private

1219
00:50:48,500 --> 00:50:46,020
hospital you may have an underdog that's

1220
00:50:51,020 --> 00:50:48,510
why my yeah the model I'm right okay so

1221
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:51,030
your last one was not oh oh my yeah my

1222
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:53,010
parents have always had under a general

1223
00:50:56,540 --> 00:50:54,090
so they must be going to the really

1224
00:50:58,310 --> 00:50:56,550
expensive it's not necessarily full

1225
00:51:00,770 --> 00:50:58,320
general anesthetic but usually on this

1226
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:00,780
part we can use not I'll step up the

1227
00:51:06,980 --> 00:51:03,210
other than later is it into colonal

1228
00:51:10,060 --> 00:51:06,990
leaking no I'd like to see that one I've

1229
00:51:12,500 --> 00:51:10,070
had a colonoscopy that's brilliant i

1230
00:51:16,430 --> 00:51:12,510
have to say i would encourage i would

1231
00:51:17,930 --> 00:51:16,440
encourage anyone i'm over 40's idea and

1232
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:17,940
it was under a general yeah so I

1233
00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:19,440
wouldn't have had a nice leave it was

1234
00:51:25,730 --> 00:51:21,510
all yeah look I i I'd encourage anyone

1235
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:25,740
over the age of 45 50 to speak to the GP

1236
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:27,450
particularly got a family history of

1237
00:51:31,250 --> 00:51:29,520
bowel cancer um you know a lot of people

1238
00:51:33,140 --> 00:51:31,260
are really frightened to go and have

1239
00:51:36,020 --> 00:51:33,150
colonoscopies done because of the ick

1240
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:36,030
factor and we'll look I why you well the

1241
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:37,200
actual getting it done is not so

1242
00:51:41,660 --> 00:51:38,970
problematic it's the day or two before

1243
00:51:45,410 --> 00:51:41,670
now when you're gonna clean when you've

1244
00:51:46,850 --> 00:51:45,420
got to be mr poopy but otherwise known

1245
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:46,860
in the real world us don't make any

1246
00:51:51,710 --> 00:51:50,250
other plans absolutely lato

1247
00:51:53,300 --> 00:51:51,720
unfortunately despite the fact that

1248
00:51:55,550 --> 00:51:53,310
we've been doing these for decades now

1249
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:55,560
there yet to come up with any better way

1250
00:51:58,760 --> 00:51:57,090
of doing it what about the virtual one

1251
00:52:00,990 --> 00:51:58,770
they're working on that they could even

1252
00:52:03,060 --> 00:52:01,000
with virtual colonoscopy which is done

1253
00:52:05,430 --> 00:52:03,070
using a CT scan rather than having to

1254
00:52:07,110 --> 00:52:05,440
have the lovely corner scope rounder way

1255
00:52:09,180 --> 00:52:07,120
around to call on you still have to take

1256
00:52:11,150 --> 00:52:09,190
the bell / here the point is all this

1257
00:52:13,470 --> 00:52:11,160
these a little poof the point is that

1258
00:52:15,540 --> 00:52:13,480
okay the few days beforehand is

1259
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:15,550
interesting to say the least but once

1260
00:52:19,620 --> 00:52:16,810
you're in there it's all over pretty

1261
00:52:21,510 --> 00:52:19,630
quick in your sleep it's not ask abhi is

1262
00:52:23,220 --> 00:52:21,520
that if we can find polyps and remove

1263
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:23,230
them before they grow into a cancer then

1264
00:52:26,220 --> 00:52:24,250
it's only the best methods for

1265
00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:26,230
preventing you'll be kissing your ass

1266
00:52:31,740 --> 00:52:28,480
for exactly your life exactly so how

1267
00:52:34,740 --> 00:52:31,750
involved in this I so basically a couple

1268
00:52:38,100 --> 00:52:34,750
of furnaces and and I think a doctor

1269
00:52:40,230 --> 00:52:38,110
decided to try a reccy intervention to

1270
00:52:41,940 --> 00:52:40,240
decrease patient anxiety before and

1271
00:52:44,070 --> 00:52:41,950
during colonists I said not on that bum

1272
00:52:46,050 --> 00:52:44,080
on the nearby that's been out of belly

1273
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:46,060
in that week what was going on well no

1274
00:52:50,580 --> 00:52:48,250
no no they did it with sedation so they

1275
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:50,590
have a sedation as well as this and they

1276
00:52:54,690 --> 00:52:52,090
and they were looking at various factors

1277
00:52:57,980 --> 00:52:54,700
but what particularly had me giggling

1278
00:53:01,500 --> 00:52:57,990
and face palming and various other

1279
00:53:04,850 --> 00:53:01,510
violent responses head desking was the

1280
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:04,860
design of the study it was called a

1281
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:07,810
prospective non blinded partially

1282
00:53:13,590 --> 00:53:10,210
randomized patient preference design

1283
00:53:16,050 --> 00:53:13,600
that's how much sleazeball like words

1284
00:53:17,610 --> 00:53:16,060
that mean we just made it up I hop on

1285
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:17,620
them I'll just read to you a little bit

1286
00:53:21,030 --> 00:53:19,450
from this as part of the usual

1287
00:53:23,070 --> 00:53:21,040
pre-procedure screening visit by the

1288
00:53:24,660 --> 00:53:23,080
gastroenterologist individuals were

1289
00:53:26,670 --> 00:53:24,670
informed about the study and invited to

1290
00:53:28,170 --> 00:53:26,680
participate if interested they were

1291
00:53:30,060 --> 00:53:28,180
given written information about the

1292
00:53:31,890 --> 00:53:30,070
Reiki intervention to take home and read

1293
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:31,900
on the day of the procedure the

1294
00:53:35,850 --> 00:53:33,490
principal investigators spoke with each

1295
00:53:37,410 --> 00:53:35,860
potential subject explained the study in

1296
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:37,420
detail and ascertain interest in

1297
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:39,610
participating was no blinding after

1298
00:53:43,110 --> 00:53:41,200
written consent was obtained patients

1299
00:53:45,450 --> 00:53:43,120
were randomized to the experimental

1300
00:53:48,090 --> 00:53:45,460
pre-procedure Reiki intervention or

1301
00:53:51,180 --> 00:53:48,100
control using usual colonoscopy care

1302
00:53:53,730 --> 00:53:51,190
group some patients randomized to the

1303
00:53:56,940 --> 00:53:53,740
control group requested to be in the

1304
00:53:58,380 --> 00:53:56,950
Reiki group Oh necessitating a

1305
00:54:01,680 --> 00:53:58,390
modification of the design to a

1306
00:54:04,590 --> 00:54:01,690
partially randomized patient preference

1307
00:54:06,540 --> 00:54:04,600
what I'm not going to go into any

1308
00:54:08,310 --> 00:54:06,550
further detail about my studies suffice

1309
00:54:10,050 --> 00:54:08,320
to say that this is the kind of stuff

1310
00:54:12,330 --> 00:54:10,060
this is the kind of study that I've seen

1311
00:54:14,940 --> 00:54:12,340
published in in nursing journals these

1312
00:54:17,850 --> 00:54:14,950
days and if my profession wants to take

1313
00:54:22,380 --> 00:54:17,860
itself seriously as a profession which

1314
00:54:23,730 --> 00:54:22,390
is scientific and and evidence-based can

1315
00:54:25,650 --> 00:54:23,740
we at least come up with something

1316
00:54:27,210 --> 00:54:25,660
better i'm richard i just wanted if i

1317
00:54:29,370 --> 00:54:27,220
can just take a minute to do a little

1318
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:29,380
bit of self-interested plugging yes

1319
00:54:32,850 --> 00:54:31,930
you're slightly political but I'm you

1320
00:54:35,790 --> 00:54:32,860
know we were talking about some of my

1321
00:54:37,170 --> 00:54:35,800
nursing stuff before and in New South

1322
00:54:39,090 --> 00:54:37,180
Wales at the moment we've got a real

1323
00:54:40,740 --> 00:54:39,100
problem in our public hospitals of not

1324
00:54:42,180 --> 00:54:40,750
having enough nurses or enough

1325
00:54:44,310 --> 00:54:42,190
registered nurses to look after our

1326
00:54:46,380 --> 00:54:44,320
patients safely and we've known for a

1327
00:54:48,300 --> 00:54:46,390
long time now about Tom registered

1328
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:48,310
nurses or having registered nurses to

1329
00:54:51,240 --> 00:54:49,930
look after patients is one of the best

1330
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:51,250
things that we can do to have good

1331
00:54:56,460 --> 00:54:54,490
patient outruns and at the moment our

1332
00:54:58,170 --> 00:54:56,470
nurses are struggling under the weight

1333
00:54:59,970 --> 00:54:58,180
of having to look after far more

1334
00:55:02,100 --> 00:54:59,980
patients they bet the fact then they can

1335
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:02,110
really manage so the New South Wales

1336
00:55:07,290 --> 00:55:03,850
Nurses Association has embarked on a

1337
00:55:09,300 --> 00:55:07,300
campaign to push for nurse to patient

1338
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:09,310
ratios which they have in Victoria but

1339
00:55:13,260 --> 00:55:11,010
we don't have a new south wales and

1340
00:55:18,180 --> 00:55:13,270
anyone who would like to support that

1341
00:55:23,250 --> 00:55:18,190
campaign can go to ww oh and sorry wwo

1342
00:55:25,590 --> 00:55:23,260
any numeral to fo you are comte you and

1343
00:55:27,660 --> 00:55:25,600
it's something that you know for from

1344
00:55:29,130 --> 00:55:27,670
nurses point of views yes our our backs

1345
00:55:30,660 --> 00:55:29,140
are breaking and where we've got a

1346
00:55:32,340 --> 00:55:30,670
terrible workload but we want to see our

1347
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:32,350
patients get the best care possible and

1348
00:55:36,660 --> 00:55:34,930
we can do that by pushing our government

1349
00:55:39,540 --> 00:55:36,670
and our opposition and anyone who cares

1350
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:39,550
about health care to ensure that that's

1351
00:55:45,150 --> 00:55:42,610
the outcome we get and of course don't

1352
00:55:47,100 --> 00:55:45,160
forget listeners that one day that when

1353
00:55:49,650 --> 00:55:47,110
you're in hospital you will be very

1354
00:55:52,740 --> 00:55:49,660
grateful for the for the professionalism

1355
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:52,750
and the idea the care that nurses give

1356
00:55:57,090 --> 00:55:55,570
you thanks Richard we really want to see

1357
00:56:00,390 --> 00:55:57,100
the best thing that we can get from this

1358
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:00,400
and it really is a concern that you know

1359
00:56:05,370 --> 00:56:01,810
as we've talked about on the show before

1360
00:56:06,750 --> 00:56:05,380
with them the way health care is going

1361
00:56:10,070 --> 00:56:06,760
in terms of some of the things we see in

1362
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:10,080
pharmacies and a real devaluing of

1363
00:56:14,310 --> 00:56:11,850
quality in

1364
00:56:15,690 --> 00:56:14,320
you know if we don't push for this kind

1365
00:56:18,990 --> 00:56:15,700
of thing and push for what we know to be

1366
00:56:20,850 --> 00:56:19,000
the best evidence care whether that's

1367
00:56:22,650 --> 00:56:20,860
behind the treatments we do all the

1368
00:56:24,330 --> 00:56:22,660
staff that we have to look after people

1369
00:56:26,970 --> 00:56:24,340
then we're not doing the best thing we

1370
00:56:28,380 --> 00:56:26,980
can in health care folks it's been one

1371
00:56:30,359 --> 00:56:28,390
of the most entertaining and interesting

1372
00:56:32,510 --> 00:56:30,369
think tanks I can remember since last

1373
00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:32,520
week and no footwear has been thrown

1374
00:56:39,420 --> 00:56:35,680
that's right and I would like to

1375
00:56:41,100 --> 00:56:39,430
sincerely thank the team tonight may not

1376
00:56:43,380 --> 00:56:41,110
thank you my pleasure you've come a long

1377
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:43,390
way tried to be with us I have that's

1378
00:56:46,350 --> 00:56:44,770
why I drink heavily because it's always

1379
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:46,360
the end of my week here when I'm here so

1380
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:47,770
I find that's the best way to do it and

1381
00:56:56,310 --> 00:56:51,010
I live you this thought yes no one

1382
00:57:00,320 --> 00:56:56,320
expects the third shoe Iran's again

1383
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:03,330
nurse Joe thank you Richard thank you

1384
00:57:08,190 --> 00:57:06,010
and Rachel Dunlop still a little jet lag

1385
00:57:09,630 --> 00:57:08,200
I fear I am a little bit but I want to

1386
00:57:12,420 --> 00:57:09,640
give a big shout out to the Salt Lake

1387
00:57:14,970 --> 00:57:12,430
City skeptics who hosted me last

1388
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:14,980
Saturday night in Salt Lake thanks very

1389
00:57:20,609 --> 00:57:17,530
much to Patrick who organized to talk

1390
00:57:23,130 --> 00:57:20,619
for me and it was a fantastic weekend in

1391
00:57:25,410 --> 00:57:23,140
Salt Lake so I'm hoping to come back to

1392
00:57:28,500 --> 00:57:25,420
the states again soon although I've just

1393
00:57:30,660 --> 00:57:28,510
got back from and I just want to add a

1394
00:57:32,609 --> 00:57:30,670
little caveat I've been getting some

1395
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:32,619
grief on Twitter because last time i was

1396
00:57:36,330 --> 00:57:33,970
on the think tank i was saying how great

1397
00:57:40,230 --> 00:57:36,340
delta was and ever since I said that

1398
00:57:42,690 --> 00:57:40,240
they failed me know so Delta pull your

1399
00:57:45,410 --> 00:57:42,700
socks up and I'd like to again think the

1400
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:45,420
whole team tonight and until next

1401
00:57:50,580 --> 00:57:47,530
interesting thing thing cheers everybody

1402
00:58:16,819 --> 00:57:50,590
oh she is indeed haunted apologize for

1403
00:58:21,559 --> 00:58:19,430
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1404
00:58:24,499 --> 00:58:21,569
zone thank you to those people who

1405
00:58:26,900 --> 00:58:24,509
subscribe for 99 cents a week to the

1406
00:58:32,299 --> 00:58:26,910
skeptic zone you can do that by going to

1407
00:58:35,539 --> 00:58:32,309
our website at wwt TV scroll down a bit

1408
00:58:38,870 --> 00:58:35,549
and you should find the links only 99

1409
00:58:41,059 --> 00:58:38,880
cents a week what a bargain folks what a

1410
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:41,069
bargain and your money does go to good

1411
00:58:45,289 --> 00:58:43,650
use now the tam organizing committee

1412
00:58:49,699 --> 00:58:45,299
have told me that we still have some

1413
00:58:52,219 --> 00:58:49,709
places left for sponsorship or vendors

1414
00:58:54,799 --> 00:58:52,229
in sydney australia at the amazing

1415
00:58:56,930 --> 00:58:54,809
meeting if your company or organization

1416
00:59:00,859 --> 00:58:56,940
are interested in being represented by

1417
00:59:02,209 --> 00:59:00,869
the way of sponsorship or if you have

1418
00:59:03,650 --> 00:59:02,219
something to sell or maybe some

1419
00:59:06,650 --> 00:59:03,660
information and you want to have a table

1420
00:59:09,019 --> 00:59:06,660
a vendor's table at tam australia there

1421
00:59:11,359 --> 00:59:09,029
are still some spots left and a chance

1422
00:59:13,999 --> 00:59:11,369
for you to be involved so drop me an

1423
00:59:16,279 --> 00:59:14,009
email here Richard at skeptics and TV

1424
00:59:18,529 --> 00:59:16,289
and i'll forward that on but for now

1425
00:59:24,140 --> 00:59:18,539
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1426
00:59:26,420 --> 00:59:24,150
from Sydney Australia you meant

1427
00:59:30,979 --> 00:59:26,430
listening to the skeptic zone visit our

1428
00:59:33,439 --> 00:59:30,989
website at wwc a petting zoo TV for

1429
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:33,449
comments contacts and extra video

1430
00:59:36,330 --> 00:59:50,180
skin